This is going to be my last post on SBC issues for a while. There are several other matters which I have been looking at that I am really interested in talking about, and I hope you do as well. In any case, I suppose I should inform you that I am not going to San Antonio, and I will not be blogging on it. Last year, I provided comprehensive coverage of the week’s events, but this year I ironically am taking “History of the Baptists” class next week. However, I am thinking about making an open post where anyone can comment on the Convention and things they found worth talking about.
What I want to talk about in this post is what I am calling the “outsourcing of the SBC.” By this I mean that some of the best and brightest men and women in the SBC are leaving with no plans on coming back. Just yesterday, I received a phone call from a dear brother who, after reading of the recent events ongoing in the SBC, finally had enough and will not be planting an SBC church. Those be outsourced, including church planters, pastors, professors, and missionaries, are wanting to network together in gospel-centered ministry that is focused on the local church and does not carry all the excess baggage of denominational politics. Let me make a few points regarding this unfortunate phenomena.
First, let’s begin with the most recent events. In a matter of two weeks, we have seen Will Hall, the editor of Baptist Press censor an article from Baptist Press, which I should add, is owned by the Executive Committee. No public explanation is given and no answers are provided for the questions that are being raised on this issue. Hall just recently announced that Baptist Press has developed an “instant news blog” that is said to cover next week’s events. I should add that the blog does not allow comments, and there is no reason to think that you will hear exactly what the Executive Committee wants you to hear. For a broader and more balanced perspective, I encourage you to read the SBC blogs from all angles, both for and against the issues being presented (for instance, Wade Burleson and Bart Barber). Secondly, we have seen the deplorable events in Florida, where Baptist money is being used to spread a series by Dr. Vines’ entitled “Baptist Battles” with a strong anti-Calvinistic slant. Morever, executive employees of the Florida Baptist Convention have covertly been holding meetings to intimidate pastors and challenge the autonomy of the local churches. Finally, you might have read here at P&P about Dr. Connell’s agenda to remove all Calvinists from the SBC as well as do away with the Abstract of Principles. Is this the type of stuff the SBC is going to use to promote cooperation and renewed Baptist identity? Censorship? Propaganda? Intimidation?
Allow me to continue. Probably the biggest issue in the SBC is the huge generational gap between the younger and older Southern Baptists. The older Southern Baptists had heroes in their day that were Southern Baptists, like W.A. Criswell, Adrian Rogers, Herschel Hobbs, and Homer Lindsay. There was a direct link between these two generations that linked them together and bonded them to trans-generational unity in mission and cooperation. However, as I look around and talk to my generation, that link is no longer there. The younger generation is not looking within the SBC to find its leaders, mentors, or heroes. Granted, there are a few here, such as Dr. David Dockery, who has the respect and admiration of many young Southern Baptists, Mark Dever, whose IX Marks Ministries is helping to shape the polity and practice of many young ministers, and Tom Ascol, who has invested much of his time and energy pouring himself into young men who are preparing to be pastor theologians. But by and large, instead of trans-generational unity in purpose and mission, there is now a huge generational gap which is ever widening both theologically and methodologically. I hear of men like John Piper, C.J. Mahaney, Mark Driscoll, John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, and Tim Keller who are now the dominant shapers of both thought and practice. The more this gap perpetuates, the more you are going to see Southern Baptists desire to model their lives and ministries after these leaders (which is great thing BTW) and will have no motivation to hang around and when Baptists bicker over nonessential matters. They will form new associations, new networks, and new ways of cooperating to accomplish the work of God in their lives and in their churches. An example of this generation gap is evidenced when there 3,000+ of God-called ministers under the age of 40 at a Together for the Gospel Conference while mostly gray-haired men attending Southern Baptist conferences today.
You can also look on college campuses and find that the growing campus ministries include the likes of RUF (Reformed University Fellowship) and Campus Outreach, both distinctively Reformed. As they get away from their home church and explore new ways of doing church, new ways of thinking about God, you will find them taking ownership in their Christian lives by reading books and joining up with campus ministries that will challenge them in their relationship with God. What books do you think they are reading? Almost without exception, they will not be books by Southern Baptists.
You see, there are many and varied things that are attracting Southern Baptists, new and old alike, to find their identity and ministry elsewhere, and there is little reason to stay and hang around. When they read about the controversy of alcohol and the fact that you cannot attend a conference without being questioned about it, they are being pushed to the periphery. When they see the triumphalistic attitudes of those leading the Convention, they are quick to be removed from their shadow. When they are told that they have to jump to certain political and bureaucratic hoops to plant churches, go on the mission field, or pastor churches, they become weary of traditions of men. When other gospel-driven church planting networks are maligned by Executive Committee members, they prefer to be maligned with them.
I would be interested in seeing if LifeWay could to some research to find just how many of our seminarians who graduate from our SBC schools do not go back into SBC churches. Whatever the percentage is, should we blame them? Twenty-seven years after the Conservative Resurgence, conservatives are no longer fighting liberals but one another, the gospel is being lost, churches are in disorderly and dying, and ministers are either failing morally or cycling through churches like revolving doors. Cooperation is being restricted to a narrowed parameters beyond the Baptist Faith and Message, and young ministers are being instructed on how politically correct they must be in oder to minister in a SBC church (for instance, if you are a Calvinist, if you are open about it, they tell you are more interested in Calvinism than the Great Commission, but if are one but choose to just preach the Bible, then you are said to be deceptive and dishonest).
So what now? Is there a way to stop the outsourcing of the SBC, its future leaders, thinkers, practitioners, and pastors? I certainly hope so. Let me give three short and simple ways as a starting point that perhaps can begin this year, maybe this next week.
1. We must focus our attention building bridges in the SBC, and by that I mean working for gospel consensus, unity in essentials, and a general understanding of our Baptist identity. I look forward to the leadership of Drs. David Dockery and Timothy George in this much needed endeavor, and I pray that you consider joining them in their efforts in the SBC. May we see the day that we become known for our cooperation more than our controversies.
2. Not only must we work to build bridges, we must protect and defend those that still exist. Such bridges include our confessions, our understanding of theological triage, that not all matters are essential, and that different perspectives are not only permissible but welcomed. This includes cessationists and continuationists, Calvinists and Arminians, abstentionists and non-abstentionists, etc. Indeed, there should be healthy discussion and even debate over these issues (well, most of them), but at the end of the day it should not result in disavowing fellowship from them or cooperating with them because you disagree.
3. Now to the hardest part. Not only must we build bridges, protect those that exist, but we must also call out those who are burning bridges in the SBC, and no one is immune from this regardless of their respectability or legacy in the Convention. If a virtual landscape of the SBC could be seen on this post, I could show where the bombs are being dropped, the bridges are being torn, and casualties of tomorrow’s Southern Baptists are finding refuge in other sanctuaries free from the conflict. I could give you dozens and dozens of examples of where this is happening in the SBC all over the country, from Roger Moran in Missouri to John Sullivan in Florida to Nelson Price in Georgia to Ergun Caner in Virginia. But if we don’t call for a cease fire and have the courage to stand up to these tactics, then we are going to find the future of the SBC controlled by bridge-burners than bridge-builders. It is pointless to build new bridges when we can’t defend the ones that remain and hold to account those who have the agenda to burn them down. I appreciate men like Dr. Danny Akin and others who are seeing the need to do this.
With a doubt, the future ecclesiological landscape will be much different in the next couple of decades in the SBC than in the last twenty years. Just what makes the difference will be a manifestation of whether the phenomena of the current outsourcing of the SBC has stopped or been propped up by our actions today. God forbid that we get accustomed to the smell of smoke rather than the sweat of our brow. There’s a good work to do, and I pray there will be folks to hang around long enough to see that work get accomplished.
Timmy,
I really appreciate your positive steps to improve the SBC situation. Too many people see only the mess but not the way out. I hope your resolution not to talk about the SBC doesn’t mean that you have resigned yourself to be outsourced.
“3. Now to the hardest part. Not only must we build bridges, protect those that exist, but we must also call out those who are burning bridges in the SBC, and no one is immune from this regardless of their respectability or legacy in the Convention.”
Thanks for the well-thought out article. I do admit that I struggle with this third point, and it is something I have wrestled with for many months now. The questions I have been struggling with are:
1) While I in no way would suggest it is unhealthy or unbiblical to call out bad arguments and theology, when is it appropriate to call out individuals by name? Especially on the blogosphere and Internet, where many articles are poorly written and many times are near slanderous. If Dr. Akin is a good model for us to follow, it should be noted that he does not mention by name the authors of the poor arguments, but instead only deals with the arguments themselves.
2) Related to the first question, how do we protect ourselves from the dangers of rhetoric and unloving speech, the same things we so often lament from those presenting the poor arguments?
I both look forward to and appreciate your comments and the comments of your readers on on these questions.
Tony,
No, I have not resigned myself to talk about SBC. All this in the past two weeks has been difficult and unhealthy for me as I don’t enjoy writing about the woeful dealings ongoing in the SBC. Anyone knows that when you do stuff of this nature, there’s a price to pay both personally and publicly. I am just going to take a step back and reevaluate everything, asking the Lord to show me what he wants me to focus my attention on for the future.
One of the dangers of the blogosphere is an overemphasis on immanence and immediacy to the neglect of transcendence and permanence. That is not to say that the culminating moments of immediacy might not eventually become a permanent fixture of historical noteworthiness, but there is a temptation to get bogged down in trivial pursuits or paying attention to things that in the end aren’t worth footnoting. Consequently, I want to write and address matters of significant gravitas that transcend triviality and novelty, including theological errors and false teaching in the church, and how to be a part of a movement committed to seeing God’s work and purpose accomplished in our generation. That is not to say the SBC or writing on these issues is not included, but that it will not be the only thing I write about.
I hope that makes sense. 😉
Joseph,
Great to hear from you bro. One of the things I am praying for in particular is that God will show me just how and when to be “as shrewd as serpents” and when to be “as innocent as doves.” Our Savior knows both how to overturn tables and run out moneychangers with a whip and know how to with those same hands gently pick up a child or embrace a leper who has never known such a touch.
Throughout church history, when theological error or controversy has arisen, people were called out. In our own convention, for instance, P.H. Mell directly addressed Reneau on the issue of predestination, publicly refuting his errors. Or, how about the Reynolds/Johnson debate over imputation during the beginning years of the SBC? This is especially true in the Patristic Period where polemical pieces were often written.
Now, I think there is a right way and wrong way to write polemics. Never do we have the luxury to attack a person, challenge their integrity, or lob ad-hominems. Even when the opportunity is attractive and the arguments are shabby, theological one-upmanship is for debaters, not servants of Christ. We must speak the truth in love, but the truth we must speak.
The passage that often comes to my mind is 2 Timothy 2:24-25 which says:
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness . . .”
This is what Joshua Harris calls “humble orthodoxy,” and I am trying to make this passage the key directive of discourse whether on the internet or in person. Now, it is a more difficult matter doing such on the Internet because of the hard, inflexible medium, so I try to refrain from sarcasm and trite humor as they are often misunderstood (and I am not a good satirist anyway!).
John Piper has written a very helpful piece called “Talking to People Rather Than About Them”
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2006/1784_Talking_itoi_People_Rather_Than_iabouti_Them/
which I think he wrote when addressing N.T. Wright’s view of justification. There are other sources out there on this subject, but I consider Piper’s handling of his opponents is gracious and yet full of conviction.
Lastly, I must say something of personal note here. I have been in situations where, out of respect and submission to my elders, I refrained from speaking publicly on matters. If I had spoken out on things I knew were outright sinful and wrong, I would have been justified in doing so, but it also would have seriously hurt the unity of the church. So I refrained. At this point in time in my life, I have been given a measure of freedom and opportunity to write and say things that others simply do not have the privilege of saying. For some, it would cost them their ministry positions; for others, it would cause other possible damage, either used against them or misunderstood by members of their church. In any case, I feel a sense of indebtedness to those who can’t speak publicly though they feel equally as strong about the matter (and they let me know that too). I take this sense of stewardship of this season in my life seriously and want to be faithful to God and His Church in using whatever gifts or abilities to make a difference for the kingdom of God.
I can’t tell you how many times people have told me, “Tim, if you write about this, you will never be able to have a leadership position in the SBC.” Or, “Tim, if you write this, so and so will not recommend you or get you where you need to go in ministry.” While I understand the caution and concern of such statements, the temptation is to believe that my life is ultimately in the hands of men and not God. Man-pleasing is an egregious sin, and were my life and ministry to be propped up by the praise of man rather than the providence of God, then I certainly would make it my ambition to be and do what the beckoning call of man tells me to be. Paul could call out people in churches for their divisiveness (Phil. 4) or shipwrecking their faith (1 Tim. 1) because he was a bondservant of Christ, the same bondservant who also penned the aforementioned passage about being kind to all, patient, etc. With that said, was Paul not being kind and fulfilling his own admonition when he called these people out? Was he being quarrelsome by denouncing false teaching or immoral behavior? Nay, I think he was doing the work of a good shepherd.
Granted, much of this took place in an ecclesiological context, but I think the same principle applies at least in prescriptive form.
Those are my initial thoughts to your questions. I am sure there is more to discuss, and I appreciate your questions as I find them especially relevant and warranted given our current situation in the SBC. Let’s continue the conversation, that we perhaps might become better servants of Christ, lovers of the brethren, and defenders of the truth.
I would point out that many of us were taught, from the pulpits of some of these persons no less, to call out names. When we do, we’re vilified. What was meant, it seems, is that it is okay to do it as long as whoever we call out isn’t “one of us;” that phrase being defined by the persons who taught it to us, not ourselves, however.
As any reader of Triablogue knows, when Steve, Jason, Patrick, Paul, Charles, Dustin, or I choose to do that, we always deconstruct what the other person says. That way there is no room for them to say they have been misrepresented. Steve, I know, keeps pretty good track of the opposition’s argumentation, and if they lie, he’ll call them a liar. He does it to get their attention, particularly if they are trying to play the victim.
That said, there is a difference between discussing somebody’s written work or sermon material on a blog and discussing it in the real world. There are certain tradeoffs. On a blog, what you say is pretty permanent, so there is a sense in which accountability is greater, because what you publish is out there. If you’re smart, you won’t change your argument in midstream, you’ll document what you’re rebutting, and you’ll be sure to stick to the issues and not the person. You should always quote. Look at the way Steve deconstructs. He quotes, then he replies. He quotes, then he replies. That keeps him focused on the argument, and it allows the reader to track both his arguments and those of others. It also means that most often what he says is pegged to way THEY framed the issue, so, when somebody gets upset, like with “Henry” lately over there, he (and I) can go back and say, “Why are you upset at the response? My answer is pegged to your statements. I’m sorry you can’t follow your own argument, but you framed the issue in those terms, and I responded on your own level. If you don’t like the answer, you have only yourself to blame.”
Nine times out of ten, when you do this, the other person eventually self-destructs. There is also a certain amount of ranting you want to allow them to do, because there is a certain kind and amount of damage that only a person on the opposing side can do to their own cause.
IN the real world, things can be different. The SBC’s power structure is very much “the Old South,” where the “Good Ol’ Boy” network is in control. Often they will react in indirect means, and if you call out a name of a prominent person like Dr. Vines, you’d best be ready to pay the price. That said, however, that has all happened in the days prior to blogs and email. It is now much more difficult to hide your iniquity in the dark.
The best thing anybody can do is follow Matthew in these matters. As you do that, keep extremely good documentation, and if there are witnesses, they should be apprised of your documentation. The situation in Holmes Assoc. in FL is a prime example. There are six persons who have validated the written notes. Brother Cecil is going to find it very hard to get out of this bind now.
The power structure, however, has another weapon at its disposal in certain states. In FL, the Baptist Witness is, how shall we say, not exactly an unbiased piece of literature. I would be very surprised, if Brothers Cecil and Jiim do not repent of their offenses, if that newspaper even covers the story. On the other hand, a sympathetic paper, like the NC Biblical Recorder can break such a story to get the attention of FL Baptists. The problem with the state papers is that, during the CR, many were labeled “liberal” or “moderate” by conservatives. Further, in some states, like NC and VA, there are papers for the conservatives, and, if the persons there decided to support Brother Jim and Cecil, that paper would likely either spin the story to support them or, more likely, not report it at all.
Now, this isn’t to say that there are not sympathetic voices in those organizations. Sure, the Baptist Witness might not report the story, but there may be enough pressure “behind the scenes” for somebody to call these men out privately. The thing is, when that is done, the people, who should have been informed from the get-go, don’t know about it, and it all just “goes away.” If that was to happen over this issue in FL, then I’d expect Brothers Jim and Cecil to tone it down for awhile, but, on the other hand, because of things I’ve seen in the past, I wouldn’t be surprised if they just found others to do their dirty work for them. It’s all about plausible deniabillity. The SBC is a minefield to trod, a powder keg ready to explode.
It also helps if you don’t always agree with everybody else in “your” camp. I don’t always agree with Wade and Ben, but, for the most part, I do. If you show yourself an equal opportunity critic, then your credibility will rise. On the other hand, sometimes you don’t need to say anything when the wolves are feeding on you or your “camp” or feuding over something others in your camp have said and with which you disagree. Sometimes, their own arguments cancel each other out, and I have learned that they will eventually feed on themselves if you give them enough room. I’ve seen this happen time and time again.
Gene,
I appreciate your counsel on this matter. Part of the reason why I did my compilation post was for documentation purposes, for people to see macroscopically just how consistent the attacks have been on the Calvinists in the SBC in recent years. The record stands as it is, and it is hard to avoid or deny it.
One of the things I think is important (as you mentioned) is to be fair and be willing to critique your own like-minded friends, especially yourself. This is why I do not take seriously people who are always biased (examples include ABP owned by CBF, and on the fundamentalist side people like Slice of Laodicea). Two weeks ago I addressed the Reformed celebrity culture and how we handle the conferences. Now I am addressing the non-Reformed attacks in the SBC. I am not a Joshua Converger or a Memphis Declarer. And when you don’t pledge your allegiance to a particular faction or camp, it is likely that you will find yourself alone much of the time. But personally, it is there where I prefer to be, knowing that I don’t have to filter my convictions through a constituency. I believe that it is then when you are true to your own convictions and labor for a pure conscience that integrity and credibility arises.
Philippians 1:29, “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,”
I am now considered a relatively older pastor (47 Yrs old). I have been a reformed for 18 years. I left the last church I pastored after 11 years because three deacons decided my views on election were not good for the church (Even though we had grown from 300 to 650 and built a multi-million dollar worship center with office and education space). These men were willing for the Bride of Christ to be divided… my family decimated… and my ministry destroyed to get their way. Of course the issue of doctrine was not discussed… instead issues related to frequency of visitation and other matters were misconstrued in order to hasten me leaving. So I know what it is like to be opposed, disliked, vilified, and attacked because of the doctrines of grace under the guise of something else.
I had people ask me over the years why I just didn’t leave when I had been attacked because of my beliefs in deacon’s meeting, in personnel meetings, and stewardship meetings. I told them you don’t abandon someone you love when things are tough. My desire was to stay… fight through the problems… and lead the church to continue to grow. But when these men were willing to kick the Bride of Christ in the stomach and give her a black eye to make me leave because of my doctrine… I gave in and left (I was the fifth of the last seven pastors going back to 1953 that were forced to leave under adversity. Thus this was a perpetually conflicted congregation according to one state worker I talked to.).
My love of God, sound doctrine, and the church makes me want to stay in the SBC and serve an established SBC congregation. The denomincation that I grew up in and educated me is worth fighting for. Personally I’m not willing to give up and given in to those who are in opposition to the beliefs I hold dear… no matter who they are. And I know that will most probably result in some hardships. But until I get run out of town by stoning, I’m not sure I’m willing to equate what has happened to me as persecution.
I pray that young me will not leave the SBC for a perceived easier road. Unless of course that is God’s call for them. I just ask that if they leave they do it with integrity (In other words, don’t become a Southern Baptist to get a degree, then jump ship after the degree is obtained). There are too many of God’s people who need to hear the truth… taught the truth… and see the truth modeled before them. If all the best and brightest leave, what will happen to the next generation?
Personally, I’m glad Al Mohler was willing to endure hardship for his love of God and Southern Baptists. I’m thankful there are Tom Ascols, Mark Devers, and David Dockerys. But there are also a lot of us out here that won’t ever be named (And I’m thankful for that!). We are trying under God’s leadership to make a difference now for the next generation of ministers we are sending our cooperateive progam dollars to train. We are trying to lead God’s church to a Bibliocentric application of Scripture not based on agendas of drinking and prayer language.
My thoughts regarding outsourcing? Know that no matter which direction you take… which road you travel… which map you follow… there will be hardship, There will be opposition. Tell your friends not to think that just because they choose to leave the SBC because of the current opposition to the reformed doctrines that ministry will be any easier. Sometimes we must choose to go with Christ… outside the camp… to join in the fellowship of His sufferings to be made like Him.
In other words… tell your friends that something you love is something worth fighting… and sometimes dying for.
Just a few thoughts of an older pastor praying for the next generation of seminarians.
I wanted to say that I from even probably the youngest generation of called pastors (23). I am graduating from an SBC school and will not be ministering in an SBC church due to the facts that you have previously mentioned. I think there are many great things about the SBC we take for granted. However, the controversies we have in the SBC seemed to be extremely hurtful and in most cases very arrogant, self centered and mean.
I admit that I am reformed, and with that I am in my humblest way saying that many non reformed leaders in the SBC are acting like liberals in that they are not arguing substance, truth and earnestly seeking God’s Truth, but they seemingly settle for emotional prideful battles of little substance and a lot of name calling and whining.
I pray that both sides of the SBC that are currently in conflict would seek Truth in Humility and keep from being so political and power hungry.
I know in my generation, I do not know of many of my college peers that are staying in SBC churches. Most people are flocking to ministries aforementioned (piper, dever, Mahaney, even Ligon Duncan). These men have really reached out to my generation in how they mentor so many young men and the true heart they have for younger called ministers. We do not see that in the SBC. Since I have been around SBTS, I have been to some really interesting forums and different events but no where have I heard or seen some of the care for the Word of God and true love for the Truth, the Church and for Christ as I have seen in these other ministries.
In closing, honestly I think the issue that we are facing has to do much more with polity and church government than anything else. The SBC churches these days sluff off the responsibilities for the majority of things in which the SBC steps up and creates more and more bureaucracy to fill the void leaving the church lacking. I really do not even think it has a whole lot to do with the opposition of reformed doctrine. I myself do not mind ministering with non-Calvinists. They are still Christians and part of the same body. I think this comes down to the quick fix mentality of the churches and the laziness that is rampant in evangelism and discipleship which are symptoms of shallow topical issue teaching in the churches and not solid expository preaching with a truly autonomous church that is raising strong Christians and training leaders for their churches, and then sending them to preach the Gospel to those who have not heard.
Dear Pastor,
Thank you for taking the time to share your heart and story for all of us, young and old. Let me frank and tell you that rarely if ever we hear stuff like this, including from men who lead us in the seminaries and conferences. I have sat across the table with men like you who in obscurity labor in the trenches for the gospel and the church. I think that one of the greatest tragedies if the outsourcing continues is that many young seminarians will miss the opportunity of sitting under the tuteledge and training of such men like you who have such a heart and conviction to stay true to God’s Word and your convictions even when difficulty and persecution comes your way. It is a tragic reality that ministers like yourself do not have the microphone and platform to communicate to other young ministers like me, and this is in part why I started this blog to begin with. We need this conversation. We need your voice to be heard. And we need to have a listening ear, teachable spirit, humble heart, and steady feet to progress in the days ahead. There are ditches to avoid, dead ends to turn from, and a steep hill to climb. In all of this, we need each other, and I sincerely hope that others will speak out and call more Southern Baptists to lock hand and arm united in one purpose and one heart for the glory of God, the renewal of His Church, the progress of the gospel, and changing of lives for the sake of the Kingdom.
Please continue to pray for us. Some are making decisions right now that will chart the course for the rest of their lives (including myself), and that includes whether staying or leaving the SBC. And in the meantime, please continue to the conversation. I suspect that there are a lot of listening ears. I have two, and I plan to use them.
D. Taylor Benton,
Your comment reminded me of what Stetzer said some time ago, namely that the two biggest issues in the next decade are centered in ecclesiology and missiology. Historically, Baptists have been strong in both of these areas, but in the last century, we have seen such a serious downgrade that it is hard to find “true churchs” (that bear the marks of regenreate church membership, right preching and administration of the ordinances, church disicipine, etc.). Secondly, church planting both overseas and stateside have taken hits in the SBC. We have seen Bob Reccord outsted from NAMB and the private-prayer languages and baptism issue become a diving line beyond the BF&M for missionary appointment. Not only that, I know from firsthand sources that if you explain your soteriology from a Reformed standpoint, you will be advised to change it to conform more strictly to the BF&M to attain appointment. If the SBC don’t get their house in order on these two central and defining aspects of Southern Baptists, then the up and coming generation of ministers will look for other networks for a more healthy ecclesiology and more robust missiology.
Dr. Mohler seems to disagree with many of the “little leaguers” who are saying that the Conservative Resurgence has gone to far (source: http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13017. In one paragraph he argues that in San Antonio there will not be a rematch over the fight regarding inerrancy, but a few paragraphs later he states that inerrancy is still an issue worth fighting for. My question, then, is where is this fight over inerrancy taking place? Who is fighting it? I don’t have comprehensive knowledge of the events ongoing in the SBC, but I don’t think the fight over inerrancy is the principle or key battle these days. I would argue that it is the sufficiency of the Bible, including the unbiblical or extrabiblical arguments for alcohol for instance are being used to rule out those who want to plant churches or cooperate in leadership positions in our Convention. I would say that, indeed, in such cases the Conservative Resurgence as gone too far – so far that it is pushed some of the most conservative, biblically-trained ministers out of the SBC (many from SBTS!). Dr. Mohler believes that the “denomination is losing many of its young people” but sees the answer in continuing the Conservative Resurgence. I really don’t know what he means by this, but if he means continuing the tactics of Sullivan/Moran/Patterson/Yarnell et al, then I think many of the Little Leaguers will be finding a new ballpark and a new team to join.
Though I did not include this in my article, let me say that one of the most practical ways of SBC leaders to stop the outsourcing of the SBC is to stop paying attention to Convention politics and help empower those who are laboring to renew and reform the local churches in the SBC. Resolutions are non-binding, preaching rhetoric are superficial sound-bytes, and building political alliances undermine the very structure of our Convention of autonomous churches. We are wasting our time looking for CEO’s and executives and forgetting to see that the SBC is does not work from the top down but from the bottom up. We need servants and shepherds who will lay down their lives for the sheep. And until we see our hope and future in the majority of men whose name will never get mentioned in a Baptist Press article, we will still be making our judgments from a faulty report card.
With “A Pastor’s” comment juxtaposed to D. Taylor Benton’s comment, let me address something I think a lot of young ministers are wrestling with.
Why should someone who has 30-40 strong years of ministry before them (at least) want to spent a large percetange of those years fighting disgruntled church members or denominational politics? Is the daily fight in the SBC worth spending some of the best years of your life investing in?
I think “Pastor” is right some who are looking for an easy way out. He is also right in saying that conflict and obstacles will occur everywhere we go in whatever context we find ourselves. But God is not limited to the SBC, and so long as the SBC structure remains as it is, then the fight looks like it will be getting worse. Some have already said that the split has already taken place implicitly and will manifest in greater evidency in the years to come.
Yet I was brought up all my life in the SBC. I was saved and baptized in an SBC church. I was licensed and ordained in an SBC church. I went to an SBC college and now attending an SBC seminary. Some of the greatest men I have read about are founders of the SBC, including J.P. Boyce, John Broadus, and Basil Manly Jr., and I long to continue their legacy. I have dozens of friends and roomates serving overseas and stateside who are supported through the Cooperative Program and local SBC churches. I have also in recent years become hopeful in seeing the work of Mark Dever and IX Ministries as well as Founders Ministries which are committed to church reform and building healthy churches. Finally, my grandfather who name I bear and who greatly influenced my life, was a graduate of SBTS (1943) and served SBC churches for over 65 years.
So if you are wondering why I am still in the SBC, those are some of the biggest reasons (outside of those mentioned already in my post, such as the leadership of Drs. David Dockery and Timothy George). So if I leave, that is what I am leaving behind – something I am not ready to do.
HOWEVER, that is not to say that there is a really possibility the SBC is leaving me, leaving the heritage of its founders, leaving the work my grandfather labored for, leaving the commitment for church reform, leaving the unity forged through our Baptist confessionalism, leaving the missiological thrust for which it was created. There is a strange thing going on today in the SBC. While Conservatives would agree that they would leave the SBC if it became liberal, didn’t believe in the inerrancy of Scripture or the exclusivity of Jesus Christ, BUT no one is saying that they would leave because the SBC became to conservative, but that mean fundamental. Isn’t that odd? Is it not possible to err on being too fundamental as much as it is being liberal? I fear that some don’t think that is a possibility.
YET, that is exactly what is happening today. Secondary and tertiary matters are elevated to primary matters, now becoming a litmus test of being conservative and a dividing line of orthodoxy, cooperation, and baptist identity. We have undermined our confessional hisotrical documents which have been used to unite us around our Baptist identity and provide a consensus for cooperation.
So the question for me is, then, when or if any leading Southern Baptist conservative leader will recognize that the reason why people are leaving is NOT because we are becoming too liberal, but that we are becoming too fundamentalistic.
Anyway, I say all this to point out the intricacies of such a weighty decision about one’s involvement in the SBC. For me, it is intensely personal, historically invested, and ministerially consequential. I am not looking for an easy way out, but I am looking for “a reason for the hope within” – the SBC.
“Be ready always to give a reason for the hope within you…” (1 Peter 3:15).
Hope #1: The glory of God is worth any cost.
Hope #2: God is sovereign.
Hope #3: There are people hoping in God for the next generation of pastor/theologians.
Hope #4: There are pastors in SBC churches who are trying to get our congregations ready for the next generation of pastor/theologians.
Hope #5: There is a generation yet to come (The one coming behind you and your fellow seminarians) that needs sound doctrine to be modeled and taught for them in established SBC congregations.
Hope #6: 2 Timothey 4:5… “As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering (!), do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry (!)…”
Hope #7: Don’t miss the words of Jesus to Paul about his ministry as found in Acts 23:11, “Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome.” Sometimes success is obedience in the midst of suffering… moving toward it… knowing what awaits is adversity. Courage is what I believe many in seminary need. A stronger hope and faith in God rather than the fear of men and their threats.
Hope #8: The next generation has open, ready, and receptive hearts in SBC churches! If we’ll be faithful, there will be a harvest.
Hope #9: There are people in the pews and pulpits of established SBC congregations that are asking God to deliver a generation of pastor/theologians to them that are faithful to Scripture. That means they (we) are praying for you.
Hope #10: Ephsians 3:20-21, ” Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, 21 to Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.” Question: What can God do in the SBC according to this text?
I know the struggles you guys in seminary have. I’ve been there myself trying to decide if I should leave the SBC and join the PCA (I came close to doing that!). But the conclusion I reached was that the denomination I love was worth staying in as a pastor no matter the cost because I wanted to give back to the ones who gave to me. As I was told… “The grass that is green to one person was brown to the one that left it behind.” And, “If you got to a place where the grass is brown, bring water with you!”
Again… be sure to let your brothers in the ministry and in seminary that there are people and pastors in churches now… SBC churches… that are looking forward to what they will do in our midst in the future.
As being wet behind the ears in ministry, I think what Timmy said struck a chord with men when he said not many of us younger people that are stepping into this storm want to spend 40 years getting back to square one when there are numerous ministries that we can be a part of right away that don’t carry the baggage of the SBC. Is that lazy or the easy way out? I think God’s calling ultimately determines that. I do say that as I and my wife have prayed about this, we see so much opportunity elsewhere for ministry and family. My wife and I have both spiritually grown up in the SBC, with my wife’s family (all the men) having served as either pastors or leadership in SBC churches. Therefore, to leave the SBC is very foreign, but the experiences we have had outside of the SBC are like having a cold glass of spiritual water in the face on a hot dry day. I pray that we would not fall into the same trap we are working to stop (lazy, shallow, quick fixes in ministry opposed to solid biblically based ministry).
My brother in-law and I were talking about the differences between reforming from within, purifying (starting from scratch), or unifying the church as it affects our calling and we came down to the fact that some are called to reform or purify when we are talking about individual churches. The question is in my heart, can the issues that we are seeing happen in the SBC be fixed? These controversies seem eerily similar to the types of arguments and debates that have been happening throughout church history and to this day, they have not been resolved and the same issues have plagued the larger institutionally organized denominations.
It seems as if the reformed crowd is talking to a wall when it comes to debating the issues. The “other side” seems as if they hear nothing and have no real logical argumentation to back up any claim or fallacy they spread. At my school, we specifically have a professor in the “Connell” mold shall we say, and no matter what is said, the argumentation is the same poorly informed bumper sticker arguments you always hear that clearly fly in the face of logic, fact, and pure reason. That type of hard headedness and traditionalism as well is what has really stuck out to me. To clarify hard headedness I mean that the “other side” cannot even acknowledge credible facts. I can recognize an opposite view but still not agree. The “other side” does not even grace us with that privilege.
The combination of these things really has made me and my wife pray about staying with the SBC, and as I stated in the previous post, we are going to be a part of another group of churches (don’t worry, I’m not dunking babies! Nothing against those PCA folks, but using the word household is stretching it for my taste! 😉
One more thing! To address what I think both Timmy and “a pastor” has said about honoring those in the past. I think this traditionalistic mentality is good but we should also use these people and history and an example in that we can at least imagine what they would do in our current circumstances. We can see throughout church history that there were those who tried to stay and fix the institution, and there were a great many who struck out on their own seeking to be more biblical. Sometimes honoring those who have served you would be to seek the best why in which you could minister and fulfill your calling as a minister. Whether that is in the “battle” or going to the “frontier” to do that. Thanks Timmy for the well needed post!
Taylor,
Above all things you have one responsibility, and that is to follow God’s call. If that is outside the SBC, then you had better not stay in the SBC! The absolutely worst tragedy would be for you, Timmy, or any of your brothers to have blind loyalty to man’s just because of tradition, money, parents, or pastoral advice.
The most important thing for every person who loves Jesus is The Kingdom… not a kingdom (Little “k”). I am more than willing and happy to send my cooperative program dollars to advance The Kingdom! The same can be said for training a generation of pastor/theologians who are willing to blaze trails AND reform from within. God’s call will determine who does what.
In my last post about “the reasons to hope” I pushed a little on purpose. Because I have such a high view of the call… I want every young man to “make his calling” sure. Get on your face… get alone with Jesus (Mark 6:31)… get alone with The Word… and seek God. Don’t leave, quit, or strike out on a quest until you have the settled assurance that GOD (!) is leading you. That doesn’t mean you have every question answered, but it does mean you are following God’s call to “go to a land that I will show you.”
When Araham followed God’s call… he didn’t know the spot he was going, but he was sure of his call. When Philip left his house in response to The Spirit’s prompting he didn’t know he’d encounter the eunuch… but he was sure The Spirit was leading him. And thus the potential abundance of “the promised land” are to be persued. Whether the “promised land” is remaining in the SBC or striking out somewhere else… the important thing is that you aren’t intimidated by the giants that live there.
Now… does what I’ve written here contradict what I’ve written earlier? No. They are in sinque (sp?) with each other. They are held in tension as one desire with God determining the outcome.
I would never dare presume upon telling any young man that his call is to stay. Were I to do that when they weren’t called to stay I would become a stumbling block to them and I’m not up for that foolishness.
If I believe my theology (Reformed, The Sovereignty of God), then I must believe that God is in control of the SBC. When God chooses to dispense with our convention (It will come to the end of it’s uesfulness one day!), then that day will glorify Him! Consider…
Churches (Congregations) have lives… just like human beings. They are born… grow… are effective… but then eventually they die (Metropolitan Tabernacle?). Some’s effectiveness is for the span of a decade or two. Others live for 60 years or longer. But sooner or later, they die… OR leave a shell of what they once were for others to look at and remember “the good old days.” I believe that one day the SBC will be a chapter in a history class seminarians take to learn of their past.
In conclusion… and as I leave… I say this: Honor God and He will honor you (1 Samuel 2:30b). If that’s in the SBC, GREAT! If it’s somewhere else, GREAT! Just follow God… not men, not your fellow seminarians, not professors, not pastors. You follow and honor God. THEN one day you will be told… “Well done good and faithful servant.”
Blessings,
Ron
“A Pastor,”
So you caught me allusion to 1 Peter 3! Thank you for such a hope-filled comment! I will be thinking about your words of encouragement in the days ahead.
D. Taylor Benton,
I’m glad you will not be baptizing babies. 😉 From what I have heard, the two leading networks/organizations receiving those being outsourced by the SBC are Sovereign Grace churches and Acts 29. And they are also some of the most healthy and balanced models of church in the country, not to mention leading in church planting.
Like you, were I to leave the SBC, it would be really weird because all I have known for the most part is SBC. Granted, I have attended and examined non-SBC churches, but that is far from being ‘one of them’ so to speak.
I can totally relate to your frustration with the lack of an intelligent and articulate defense of Arminianism among those attacking Calvinism. I hear crazy comments like, “I’m not Calvinist or Arminian – I’m Baptist (or a biblicist).” What?! I guess the only person who is supposed to know what that means is the person saying it. “Baptist” is an ecclesiological category, not a theological framework anyway.
But what gets me worse is to see the leaders in the SBC who are Reformed shy away and hunker down in silence. For instance, Dr. Mohler hasn’t touched any SBC issue for years. He has mainly devoted himself to cultural/political issues and writing for Christian worldview thinking. The moment he writes something, he sounds like Paige Patterson and the typical SBC political talking points.
You asked whether the problems in the SBC can be fixed. I think we need to go further back than that. We must ask whether there are any leaders in the SBC who will devote their time and energy to fix these problems in the first place. There are many who are willing to write articles, give speeches, and ride the SBC political circuit, but are there any who are willing to sacrifice their political clout for the betterment of the SBC? Are they willing to loose allegiances and call out even their own friends when they are hurting the health and future of the SBC? Are they willing to take the reform to the local churches and give themselves to see that this next generation is not going to inherit an ecclesiological wasteland? To me, THIS is the issue.
Will the real SBC leadership please stand up?
“A Pastor,”
While at the Baptist Identity conference, I had another friend who is a church planter in the SBC ask a well-respected SBC leader about whether he should stay or leave the SBC. The leader told him that it might be best for him to leave. For him and for me, this was really encouraging because even those leading the SBC recognize that the Kingdom of God is not contingent upon the future of the SBC. It could very well be an old wineskin before long.
However, I am not there yet. And now that I know who you are, you know this to be true. You have heard my heart, seen my tears, and become aware of my brief but difficult history with SBC churches. I love the SBC and will hang around as long as I believe God can use me here. At this point in my life, I have about a year left here in Louisville, and I am praying and seeking the Lord more than ever about his directives for my life once I leave. Therefore, these recent events have all the more significance for me personally since they are playing some immediate factors for determining the Lord’s direction. Of course, for men like Dr. Connell and others, there’s nothing they would want more than to see me become “outsourced,” but I am not prepared at this point to fulfill such a wish.
You concluded that the goal is to honor God, and the promise is that God will honor you. I totally agree (Timothy by the way means “honoring God”). Proverbs says that before honor comes humility. That’s the goal of my life right now, to walk humbly and live faithfully before the Lord. I have no doubt that he will confirm his call for me and establish my steps. I just want to be used in a way that will put him on display that others can treasure him, whomever those “others” may be. May God help me live up to my name.
Last thought my brother,
Maybe the real SBC leadership is standing up the only way they can and the best way they know how. Through something called a blog. Only time will tell. Leadersship is influence according to John Maxwell.
Yes… I do believe I know your heart. I know your pain. I’ve seen your struggle. As another guy who sat at that table once told me… “God doesn’t use anyone He doesn’t first break.” After breaking comes remaking.
Maybe that is the course for you, me, and the SBC. To be broken so that God can remake it. Whatever the cost… even so come Lord Jesus. Work in our midst! Have your way! Build your Kingdom!
Blessings,
Ron
I wish there were a spell checker that corrected my bad spelling before I click on “Submit Comment!”
“A Pastor,”
Yeah, I have major spelling issues as well! I think there is a plug-in for that, and if ou use Firefox, it comes with the updates.
Both at lunch and here on the blog, you have been an encouragement to me Ron. You would think that such conversations and encouragement could be found in a place like Southern Seminary, but unfortunately, it isn’t there.
I don’t know what the future holds, for the SBC or for my life, but I pray the Lord puts his hand on me and molds me in a way that brings Him the most glory. That’s all I want, and whatever breaking that involves, I receive it as a gift of God.
As David said,
“Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep your word. You are good and you do good; teach me your statutes. . . . It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statutes. The law of your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver pieces.”
Psalm 119:67-68, 71-72
Thanks again for your friendship, and I pray that more trans-generational conversationscan take place to build greater bridges for the future of the SBC.